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Zgłoszenia Homeworlds

#54265: "UX appraoch is confusing"

implemented: Ta propozycja została wdrożona

O czym jest to zgłoszenie?

Homeworlds #220757521

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Propozycja: moim zdaniem, następujące rzeczy bardzo poprawiłyby implementację gry

Co się stało? Wybierz z poniższych opcji

Propozycja: moim zdaniem, następujące rzeczy bardzo poprawiłyby implementację gry

Sprawdź, czy istnieje już zgłoszenie na ten sam temat

Jeśli tak, ZAGŁOSUJ na to zgłoszenie. Zgłoszenia z największą liczbą głosów mają najwyższy PRIORYTET!

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2021 Dec 2 20:12 • mneme • Ta propozycja nie została jeszcze przeanalizowana przez programistów:

The usual BGA UX is either "select action, then select how to do it" would work. But since homeworlds is piece-first I think it would be reasonable to reverse it -- select a piece and then get a menu of actions you can do (divorce it from WHY you can do only those actions; that's not important right now and people can read the rulebook), putting Sacrifice LAST.

However, the current module is basically the worst:

New players don't get a menu of what they can do, so it's really easy for them to miss options or just select the wrong one.

Existing players can't just select the action the ywant; they have to make the non-decision of deciding -how- to do it and choosing between the ship itself and oher ships/systems when it doesn't matter.

For experienced players it would also be nice to be able to initiate a grow/swap by clicking on a piece in the stash first (and then get prrompted for whether you want to grow that piece or trade for it if both options are on the table, and then click on the system you want to grow in or the ship you want to swap it for), and initiate an attack by clicking on the enemy you want to attack. But obviously that wouldn't help novice players much while a clearer flow really would.

2021 Dec 5 23:39 • Babamots • Programiści zgadzają się, że jest to dobry pomysł i zamierzają nad nim pracować:

I haven't started working on this yet, but I'm strongly considering changing the click order to "power" followed by "activated ship." When I get to this, I expect, the instructions to read something like these:
"You may choose a ship or star to use its power."
"You may choose a ship in the same system to activate it with ${color} power."

2021 Dec 6 10:05 • mneme • Programiści zgadzają się, że jest to dobry pomysł i zamierzają nad nim pracować:

That makes sense. I don't have a strong horse in power-first vs ship-first (obviously I'm used to power-first from SDG, but it's not a huge deal).

One nice thing about power-first would be that the UI could limit your choices rather than force a ship selection -- you'd select "Grow" and it would then show you which ships you could grow across your empire (without a sacrifice). Or you'd choose "sacrifice" and could then sacrifice any ship.

I haven't tried; does the system warn you if you're trying to end your side (like by sacrificing your only ship)?

2021 Dec 6 18:53 • Babamots • Programiści zgadzają się, że jest to dobry pomysł i zamierzają nad nim pracować:

There is a warning after you click "End turn" if you would be eliminated.

I haven't understood your suggestion very well, but I was proposing "power first" as a solution. In particular, I apparently haven't at all grasped what you meant by

"they have to make the non-decision of deciding -how- to do it and choosing between the ship itself and oher ships/systems when it doesn't matter."

Can you clarify?

It sounds like you might be saying you want more buttons with text on them (like a "grow" button). I want to avoid text-based interface elements where possible because clicking pieces is both cleaner and easier to write. The presence or absence of a color in a system automatically limits what kind of action a player can take, which I expect to be instructive for new players.

2021 Dec 6 21:04 • Babamots • Programiści chcieliby uzyskać więcej informacji na temat tej propozycji:

I think I just figured out out. Are you concerned about, when there are multiple pieces of the same cookie, player have to choose which of the same-colored pieces to click when choosing a power?

2021 Dec 7 06:18 • mneme • Programiści chcieliby uzyskać więcej informacji na temat tej propozycji:

Yeah. It underlies the mechanics, yes -- but it's a non-decision and because it adds extra non-decision mechanics it seems to make it harder for players to properly compass the decision space they actually have.

2021 Dec 7 07:40 • Babamots • Programiści zgadzają się, że jest to dobry pomysł i zamierzają nad nim pracować:

That's a good point. I'll contemplate ways to address this, preferably without scrapping the current interface entirely.

2021 Dec 9 00:08 • JustinInOhio • Programiści zgadzają się, że jest to dobry pomysł i zamierzają nad nim pracować:

New player here. I had no idea clicking the ship a second time to take the ship action was available/the correct thing to do. I spent 3 turns just changing ship colors before sacrificing and ending the game. Is clicking the ship a second a mandatory thing or could you just activate the area that the ship action would allow?

2021 Dec 18 13:50 • z_watcher • Programiści zgadzają się, że jest to dobry pomysł i zamierzają nad nim pracować:

If you go with using power first (you still get the sacrifice option top):
* When using red power, you could infer you are using your biggest ship in system to do it, meaning you could directly go to take any possible ship in the system
* When using green power, you could also directly highlight in the bank the options, depending on ship colors in the system

2022 Jan 29 14:37 • Jellby • Programiści zgadzają się, że jest to dobry pomysł i zamierzają nad nim pracować:

I'd suggest one of the following (A or B)

A)
1. Select action: Build, Change, Move, Capture, Sacrifice
2. Select ship. Ships that can perform the action are highlighted (or other ships are greyed out). In the capture case, you'd directly select an enemy ship.

B)
1. Select own ship.
2. Select action: Build, Change, Move, Capture, Sacrifice. Actions that this ship cannot perform because the color is not available in the system are greyed out.

2022 May 28 01:34 • Babamots • Programiści zgadzają się, że jest to dobry pomysł i zamierzają nad nim pracować:

I am still thinking about this, but I've taken care of some easier things first. The current plan is like Jellby's B suggestion: I'm going to keep the option to select pieces, but there will also be action buttons at the top that will be greyed out if the corresponding technology isn't available for the selected ship.

It will probably take a while to get this done because of life things, but I'll get there!

2022 Jun 5 00:46 • Babamots • Ta propozycja została wdrożona:

I added buttons that appear during the power selection phase. The buttons are an unambiguous think to select for the power you want, and they help to guide players through the ship-power-target process.

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#54265: "UX appraoch is confusing"

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