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Zgłoszenia Space Empires: 4X

#52604: "SE4x retreat rules not adhered to"

worksforme: Programistom nie udało się odtworzyć tego błędu

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Space Empires: 4X #213195410

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2021 Nov 10 23:17 • moejello • Błąd nie został jeszcze odtworzony przez programistów:

I think maybe the mod is confused as to who owns which colonies

2021 Nov 16 18:35 • Lunalol • Programiści wymagają więcej informacji do odtworzenia tego błędu:

To be sure, from rule book:

It must retreat into a hex that is equally distant or closer to one of its colonies than the hex that it is retreating from (discounting any colony in the battle hex).

And you said : "from my own closest colony". It has not the same meaning.

Perhaps it's a wrong interpretation of rules.

I will let it open.

2021 Nov 16 21:39 • moejello • Programiści wymagają więcej informacji do odtworzenia tego błędu:

We've always interpreted the rule to mean that a ship retreating from combat must be retreating (moving back) towards a friendly colony. The letter of the rules as written don't seem to expressly state this, now that I re-read them. I also couldn't meet the condition of the rules as written (and rarely can) since they seem to say the system you retreat into has to be: adjacent to the battle hex AND equally distant to one of its own colonies which would by that definition need to be adjacent as well, to be equally distant. Or the retreat hex must be CLOSER than the hex it is retreating from... meaning only that the hex you're retreating into IS a colony hex. Otherwise you just couldn't legally retreat.
Confusing, maybe consult the designer to find intent.

2021 Nov 18 21:23 • Lunalol • Programiści wymagają więcej informacji do odtworzenia tego błędu:

If you have more time than me, perhaps you could use BGG forum to find "good" rule interpretation.
I have tried to implement rules strictely (word by word).

2021 Nov 30 17:02 • RandolphCarterKadath • Programiści wymagają więcej informacji do odtworzenia tego błędu:

Agreed, one should not be able to "retreat forward".
5.9.1 says: It must retreat into a System that is equally distant or
closer to one of its Colonies than the hex that it is retreating
from; this does not need to be the closest Colony. Closeness
is determined “as the crow flies,” ignoring intervening
terrain and ships. If no legal retreat exists, the ship may
not retreat.

equallly distant *or closer*: it means that you cannot go forward. Please check out boardgamearena.com/2/spaceempires?table=216223022 where Red was able to "bypass" my ships entering my Home System. His retreat was 1 hex FURTHER from any of its colonies this way, no?

2021 Nov 30 17:10 • Lunalol • Programiści wymagają więcej informacji do odtworzenia tego błędu:

"equallly distant *or closer*: it means that you cannot go forward"
NO, it means equally or closer nothing else.
We cannot interpret the rules so that they are what we want.
Please open a thread on BGG and ask to other players.
I have implemented rules as written in rulebook.
In last ressort, I will write to Jim.

For you table, if combat was in Nebula with blue DN-2, your ships are equally distant from Goth.

2021 Dec 1 05:19 • lalongcarabine • Programiści wymagają więcej informacji do odtworzenia tego błędu:

If the closest friendly colony is located along the flat part of a hex, the only legal retreat is the flat side of the hex.
If the closest friendly colony is located along the spline part of the hex, you have two two legal retreats on either side of the spline of the hex.

0 1 2
4 5 6
7 8

Hope the hex spacing survives for my hex above.

If battle is at 1 and friendly colony is at 8 - 5 is the only legal retreat as * is 2 hexes from 1. 2 and 4 are not equal distance since they are 3 hexes from 8.

If the battle again at 1 and friendly colony closes is at 7 - 4 and 5 are legal moves from 2 hexes from 1. 0 and 2 are not equal distance since they are 3 hexes from from 1.

If two colonies are located at 7 and 6 battle hex is again 1 - the legal retreats are hexes are 2, 4, and 5. 0 not legal retreat as it is not equal distance as closest colony being one hex further.

And so on and so on.

2021 Dec 1 06:23 • lalongcarabine • Programiści wymagają więcej informacji do odtworzenia tego błędu:

Retreat examples at link:

photos.app.goo.gl/ntJf1WDeWJ4TMeWW8

2021 Dec 1 20:39 • lalongcarabine • Programiści wymagają więcej informacji do odtworzenia tego błędu:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUTLJejUUvg

At 7 minutes shows a retreat to the only possible adjacent hex since the closest Colony is on flat hex size

2021 Dec 1 21:18 • Lunalol • Programiści wymagają więcej informacji do odtworzenia tego błędu:

STOP, why are you talking about CLOSEST friendly colony, where do you read that in rules ?????

"It must retreat into a hex that is equally distant or closer to one of its colonies than the hex that it is retreating from (discounting any colony in the battle hex).

Exemples at link don't respect rules.

2021 Dec 3 04:37 • lalongcarabine • Programiści wymagają więcej informacji do odtworzenia tego błędu:

After reading your passionate and well reasoned response , I searched the internet again (found no new information), and reread the rules (several times while mocking up the situation).

I must coincide you are correct, my first reading of the rules was in error. I have below my second attempt:

drive.google.com/file/d/1NGuoqbyNBzEPRnQneZJMy1jOaw6XBFkG/view

I think this attempt is in line with the rules, it shows 2 of the 12 possible retreat scenarios if this is the correct interpretation of the rules.

Thoughts?

2021 Dec 3 21:23 • Lunalol • Programistom nie udało się odtworzyć tego błędu:

I like you last drawing, we are in phase :)
If friendly colonies are really spaced, one far away left and one far away right, rules permit to go deeper in enemy territory. For some players, this retreat look like an advance after combat. Perhaps it seems strange for you (for me too), but on BGA, we don't create a new game, we try to implement an existing one.
Thanks for your help and please continue to play and test SE4X.
Still need some approbations.

2021 Dec 3 22:10 • lalongcarabine • Programistom nie udało się odtworzyć tego błędu:

Thanks, I keep trying to retreat in combat to get some screen shots, but I either get destroyed or my opponents retreat. I will add screens shots (with notes) when I get an opportunity to retreat.

2021 Dec 6 05:47 • lalongcarabine • Programistom nie udało się odtworzyć tego błędu:

Looks, good thanks.

drive.google.com/file/d/1-AIOmUAHVNI4glcsK_NEWQz7zU5I9z6E/view?usp=sharing

drive.google.com/file/d/1-5Ym7HMXHlCceUOnfPAgpEbtvpmyiH_Z/view?usp=sharing

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#52604: "SE4x retreat rules not adhered to"

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