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#47043: "Limit 'no time limit' option of normal mode for only reciprocal friends"

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2021 Aug 24 01:03 • ufm • Ta propozycja nie została jeszcze przeanalizowana przez programistów:

2021 Aug 24 17:40 • Woodruff • Ta propozycja nie została jeszcze przeanalizowana przez programistów:

I disagree with that suggestion.

This feature is useful even if you are not befriended yet. I use it for example for teaching games to newbies who will not necessarely become friends.

I would not remove such a useful feature because it enables cheating, that is IMO the wrong way to go. Trust should be the starting point, because it makes life for the majority easier (which is a goal for BGA).

It should be better to track players who abuse it with evidence they do, as for any other case of cheating.*

Thanks!

2021 Aug 24 20:28 • ufm • Ta propozycja nie została jeszcze przeanalizowana przez programistów:

Two words: Training mode.

2021 Aug 24 20:30 • ufm • Ta propozycja nie została jeszcze przeanalizowana przez programistów:

Read the title of this suggestion. I'm not suggesting removing no time limit option entirely, but only limiting normal mode's no time limit option for reciprocal friends.

2021 Aug 30 23:27 • Woodruff • Ta propozycja nie została jeszcze przeanalizowana przez programistów:

I read it, don't worry.

I rarely use training mode and I think most players don't because it is not the default.
Even for teaching game I switch off training mode so that the beginner can be rewarded if they win ;) (Elo boost + points).

Removing no time limit in ranking games would be a mistake IMO.

2021 Aug 31 09:09 • ufm • Ta propozycja nie została jeszcze przeanalizowana przez programistów:

Of course training mode shouldn't be default and most players don't use training mode.
Not everyone requires a learning game, and even if someone does they don't play learning game repeatedly.
They will eventually move on and enjoy regular games.
Even though training mode is rarely used, it is better suited for learning purpose, as the name suggests.

'Beginner can be rewarded', I don't buy it.
Someone requiring a tutor to learn a game has significantly lower chance to win, needless to say.
Considering the skill gap the tutor is expected to win.
(Even seen some players beating a bunch of beginners in their own gaming group to rack up ELO points, but that's another story...)
In a sense, playing teaching game in normal mode is robbing a chance of rapid ELO gain from the beginner.
Normal mode games count against initial K-factor boost. Training mode games do not.

Also, tutors might want to play suboptimal moves to show the beginner how to play.
For example, playing every possible action in the game just to teach the rules, regardless of the action's efficiency.
Playing in normal mode effectively discourages such behaviors.

And again, I didn't say 'let's remove no time limit in ranking games', but limiting it to reciprocal friends.

2021 Aug 31 09:15 • ufm • Ta propozycja nie została jeszcze przeanalizowana przez programistów:

For the first reply, I don't expect BGA admins or mods to track every subtle abuser.
They can't even handle obvious cheaters. Just look around backgammon or tichu forum.
So... better safe than sorry.

2021 Aug 31 09:35 • ufm • Ta propozycja nie została jeszcze przeanalizowana przez programistów:

In short, 'trust should be the starting point'. How about starting from adding each other as friends then?
That signifies mutual trust, doesn't it?

2021 Aug 31 22:21 • Woodruff • Ta propozycja nie została jeszcze przeanalizowana przez programistów:

Trust is a thing. Befriend with somebody is another.

Otherwise, your argumentation is relevant but I think we have two points of view and philosophies about what the platform should be which are to different to conciliate (safety versus features), so I won't elaborate more.

Thanks.

Wood

2021 Sep 7 01:16 • Katt83 • Ta propozycja nie została jeszcze przeanalizowana przez programistów:

I strongly agree with this suggestion, or the limit to only allow it between friends. I got stuck with the aforementioned user in a game because I was the last one to join and didn’t see the notice until it was too late. I don’t want to read all of the fine print every time I agree to a game

2021 Sep 8 12:49 • twenty9oh7 • Ta propozycja nie została jeszcze przeanalizowana przez programistów:

At the very least there should be a better way to communicate when there is someone abusing the system. There is a repeat offender that keeps being mentioned, but it doesn't appear that they have been moderated since they were caught manipulating ELO with multiple accounts.

2022 Mar 8 21:16 • WolfsHummel • Ta propozycja nie została jeszcze przeanalizowana przez programistów:

it's okay to be only able to play with friends without time limit BUT how it is done at the moment is totally heavy-handed and awkward. We want back to be able to first create a table and then set no time limit and invite friends!!!

2022 Apr 11 00:41 • arisanana • Ta propozycja nie została jeszcze przeanalizowana przez programistów:

Now that there is no one-sided friends only (as of that update a while ago that made adding friends a friend request that needs to be accepted) — the reciprocal factor is not so much a point anymore and IF I'm not mistaken generally I can't see the "real-time game • no time limit" option UNLESS I start with "Friend" game and having the friends I'm inviting selected.

> However, there IS an issue where after I play several games with a friend on "real-time • no time limit" and the settings save that, the next open table I make remembers those settings and lets the table go through even if it's a random player that joins my table.

I used to forget that the no time limit option was on and just started the game (granted, no one really had a problem so far thankfully since in my case, Hanabi is a co-op game so both players *want* to be playing), but this would be problematic for games that are competitive and probably have lots of players, like for example 6nimmt.

2022 May 7 19:36 • Hulb • Ta propozycja nie została jeszcze przeanalizowana przez programistów:

Just throwing my 2 cents in, but I think the issue lies with the lack of timed turn based options, currently the max before no time limit is 1 per 2 days. Maybe, if there was say a 1 per 7 days option, it would solve the issue for all sides: Those who want more than just 2 days to take a turn and those who want a way to eliminate players who stop bothering as, after 7 days, they are kickable. 1 per 7 days would be good for those who maybe only want to take a couple of turns over the weekend, but also don't want to commit to a 2hrs+ real time game.

2022 Jun 2 18:29 • Hulb • Ta propozycja nie została jeszcze przeanalizowana przez programistów:

Another idea could be to make normal no time limit a locked play mode which you can only create OR join if you have say been a member for over 1 year and played 1,000 tables, to show you're trustable.

2023 Jan 19 09:36 • Archduke • Ta propozycja została wdrożona:

No time limit has been limited to friends for some time.
Recently, no time limit has been changed to training mode only.

See #78071 for a suggestion to turn it back to "friends only".

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#47043: "Limit 'no time limit' option of normal mode for only reciprocal friends"

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